Question Poor guiding results - M-Zero

  • AlexN-Astro
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09 Jul 2024 22:33 #1320 by AlexN-Astro
Replied by AlexN-Astro on topic Poor guiding results - M-Zero
Two nights ago I reset minimum move to 0.00 for RA and DEC, as well as adjusting everything back to the recommended settings, and made an off axis counterweight to offset the EAF weight and my guiding was considerably better. I think I was guiding at 0.85" on average, and my imaging scale is 3.05" per pixel, so the guiding is more than sufficient. I will upload the logs from that session shortly and post a link. 

Guide speed in stargo is 0.4x RA, and 0.5 in DEC. 
I did this based on my focal length being 312mm, and the parameters in the recommended guiding settings being for 250mm or 400-500mm. I just went half way between them both.  

There isn't much I can put on the other end of the declination, as i dont use a guide scope.  I may be able to put 400g with the computer and powerbox down there, but that would be about it really. 

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09 Jul 2024 23:14 #1321 by AlexN-Astro
Replied by AlexN-Astro on topic Poor guiding results - M-Zero
drive.google.com/file/d/1oXxNt0RD4KBJ0Sv.../view?usp=drive_link

This is the latest guide log, and everything seems much smoother here, however, the average is still 0.9" per pixel.

This was with the following settings:
X/Y Algorithms : Lowpass2
RA/DEC aggressiveness: 95%
RA Max Duration: 500ms
DEC Max Duration: 700ms
RA Speed: 6.8 arc-sec/sec (0.45x) (based on sidereal rate being ~15 arc-sec/sec, and 6.8/15 = 0.45)
DEC speed: 7.4 arc-sec/sec (0.5x) (based on sidereal rate being ~15 arc-sec/sec, and 7.5/15 = 0.5)

One thing I did notice is the star HFD values in the best guiding results were ~2, however they are now around 4. This could result in the guide software occasionally miscalculating the centroid of the star and causing eratic guide reactions. 

The guide logs indicate polar alignment was quite good, with a declination drift rate of 0.03 arc-minutes per minute, however the RA drift rate was -5.07 arc minutes per minute - this would indicate that the RA tracking is considerably slower than it should be. Should I attempt to test out the setting in StarGo.exe, to automatically adjust RA rate?

I'm currently powering the mount with a 12V 5A power supply, however I am going to purchase a 15V 5A power supply today, and test the mount with more power to it.
 

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18 Jul 2024 06:54 - 18 Jul 2024 06:56 #1323 by AlexN-Astro
Replied by AlexN-Astro on topic Poor guiding results - M-Zero
I upgraded my guide camera to an IMX178 based camera with much smaller pixels (2.4um vs 3.75um in my previous guide camera) in the hopes that having more pixels under each star would result in the guide system responding faster to star movements. I'm still seeing 0.8 ~ 0.9 arc-sec total RMS.

RA is worse than dec, constant corrections, almost all of them in the same direction, its as if the mount is tracking too fast/too slow... I'm starting to pull my hair out a bit with it... I checked and double checked my polar alignment, under 10 arc-sec from the pole, and that should only result in dec drift, not RA drift... 
Last edit: 18 Jul 2024 06:56 by AlexN-Astro.

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18 Jul 2024 13:59 #1324 by Stefano82
Replied by Stefano82 on topic Poor guiding results - M-Zero
If you see all the corrections coming from the same direction, you can try to work a bit on the TRACKING ADJ tool (RA DEC tab -> TRACKING ADJ frame).
With that tool you can adjust the sidereal tracking speed.
Best regards

Stefano
Avalon Instruments Team

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22 Jul 2024 01:22 #1325 by AlexN-Astro
Replied by AlexN-Astro on topic Poor guiding results - M-Zero
I spent some time with it last night and have settled on -90 at the moment, though, having that on still only got me to 0.7" RMS.

I set StarGo to automatically adjust for the first hour or so of imaging last night and kept an eye on it, it jumped around a bit from -77 to -120, so I picked -90, somewhere around the middle, and stuck with that. I will upload those logs for you to have a look at some time later today.

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02 Aug 2024 01:31 - 02 Aug 2024 01:34 #1332 by AlexN-Astro
Replied by AlexN-Astro on topic Poor guiding results - M-Zero
Update: 

I have restored everything with my rig back to how it was in April when I was achieving ~0.4" RMS. 
I reduced the overall weight by 1.4kg, Removed the focal reducer from my scope (that is very heavy, but also caused slightly stretched star shapes, without the reducer, the field is perfectly flat with perfect round stars in the guide frame), reset all the settings for PHD2 and in StarGO back to defaults for the mount, then configured PHD2 as per the settings found here  
I modified the settings a little, as my scope is 416mm focal length, so I made the settings about half way between the 250mm setting and the 500mm setting.

So the current situation is:
4.6kg load on the mount 
- 65mm f/6.4 telescope (416mm focal length)
- OAG + IMX178 camera
Total telescope length (including camera) 63.5cm.

PHD2 guide settings:
RA/DEC max duration 500/700
RA/DEC Agressiveness: 100/100
RA/DEC Minimum Move 0.00/0.00
Guide Algorithm LowPass2
Guide Exposures 1s
RA/DEC Guide Speed 0.5x/0.6x

Mount is beautifully balanced, no detectable inbalance in any direction.
Polar alignment is less than 0.5 arc seconds off (slightly east, slightly high) 

Imaging camera resolution is 2.29"/pixel
Guiding camera resolution is 1.2"/pixel

I ran PHD2 for a few hours and was seeing guiding around 1.3" RMS

Things I adjusted:
I adjusted the agressiveness down to 80 when I was seeing RA/DEC oscilations in guiding, this helped a little, but still ~1.1"/ RMS 
I increased the guide exposure duration to 2sec, then to 4sec, thinking that maybe the eratic movement was due to seeing - this again, improved things a little bit, but only for a little while, then it got worse again.
I increased max RA duration, as I was becoming RA Limited sometimes.
I tweaked the focus a number of times on the OAG (and confirmed it using a bahtinov mask) to ensure the guide stars were as focused as they could be.
I noticed that all the guide corrections were in the East direction, indicating the RA axis was running slow, so I enabled 'Auto Adjust Tracking' - Again, this made very little difference.
I tried to eliminate the OAG from the equation, so I used my imaging camera in PHD2, the guiding was the same.
I created a new PHD2 profile from scratch and ran everything at its default parameters, still achieving 1.05~1.15" RMS.


I'm running out of ideas here - I don't understand how the mount was getting 0.4" RMS when I first got it, it then went to 0.5~0.6" RMS within a month or so. Now I struggle to keep it under 1.0" RMS (usually averaging at 1.1" RMS)

This really isn't good enough for a $7200 AUD mount..

What else do I need to provide you for you to help me diagnose this?
I can send you my StarGO Config, more PHD2 logs. Photos/Videos of the setup/balance. Screen recordings of the PHD2 settings etc.. 
Last edit: 02 Aug 2024 01:34 by AlexN-Astro.

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